• Corporations can now freely sue Scratch for copyright infringement on the grounds that it profits off of piracy.
  
• Scratch loses tax-deductible status since it is now a source of income for the ST and now treated as a company, so they will have to constantly earn money or go bankrupt, which means bye-bye Scratch.
  
• A huge percentage of active users will leave Scratch in outrage, which cuts profiting off views/plays significantly. Basically a total net loss for the ST's revenue so they'll likely file for chapter 11 bankruptcy before the next business cycle. Essentially, Scratch plummets into darkness faster than you can say “well that was an awful decision”.
  

• Reaching +100 or more for the first time automatically gives you Scratcher status if you aren't already
  
• +100 for being curated or featured
  
• +5 for completing a tutorial or finding easter eggs on the website (one time only)
  
• +5/day when you click a special “daily” button in your profile settings (basically the “minimum wage” of Scratch)
  
• +1 for every fave, love, remix, and follow you receive (undoing and redoing will not cheat the system)
  
• +1 for every bad comment/project you report that gets removed by staff (might over-encourage some to go on report frenzies)
  
• +1/100 for every view on your projects (not unique views, those would be awfully harder to track)
  
• -10 for having a comment reported and removed by staff (discourages negative comments)
  
• -50 for having a project reported and removed by staff (discourages rule-breaking projects)
  
• Reaching -100 results in an automatic temporary ban if one isn't issued manually before
  

• Raising the maximum number of cloud variables OR maximum data per cloud variable you can put in one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max list limit in one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max project size for one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max file size for the thumbnail of one studio you own for a limited time.
  
• Raising the max file size for your avatar for a limited time.
  
• Raising the character limit for your next comment.
  

($ my scratchbux ::sensing) // gets the current user's SBux
($ transaction id ::sensing) // ID of the current transaction made by this user
request transaction for $ (10) to (username) ::sensing // creates a pending transaction ID which expires shortly if not verified in time
// also opens a dialog box to verify the user wants to give SBux to the selected user, or to revoke the transaction
<transaction (ID) is verified? ::sensing> // checks whether a transaction fulfilled completely

Zro716 wrote:

…

gamebeater187 wrote:

Scratch is non-profit, so it would never happen.

Zro716 wrote:

One thing to keep in mind: it's not as simple as you think to even begin to implement this. Let's imagine what it would be like.

First of all, what currency will Scratch use? Will it use real money, or will it invent its own currency, like ScratchBux (SBux)? Going with the former means Scratch is no longer non-profit, and this creates epic bad consequences:

• Corporations can now freely sue Scratch for copyright infringement on the grounds that it profits off of piracy.
  
• Scratch loses tax-deductible status since it is now a source of income for the ST and now treated as a company, so they will have to constantly earn money or go bankrupt, which means bye-bye Scratch.
  
• A huge percentage of active users will leave Scratch in outrage, which cuts profiting off views/plays significantly. Basically a total net loss for the ST's revenue so they'll likely file for chapter 11 bankruptcy before the next business cycle. Essentially, Scratch plummets into darkness faster than you can say “well that was an awful decision”.
  

Okay, so real money is a no-go, but what if we were to create a completely worthless currency like SBux? Well, it needs to have ways of earning it as well as spending it that in no way restrict anyone unfairly. Here I've jotted down a few ideas for how participation changes it:

• Reaching +100 or more for the first time automatically gives you Scratcher status if you aren't already
  
• +100 for being curated or featured
  
• +5 for completing a tutorial or finding easter eggs on the website (one time only)
  
• +5/day when you click a special “daily” button in your profile settings (basically the “minimum wage” of Scratch)
  
• +1 for every fave, love, remix, and follow you receive (undoing and redoing will not cheat the system)
  
• +1 for every bad comment/project you report that gets removed by staff (might over-encourage some to go on report frenzies)
  
• +1/100 for every view on your projects (not unique views, those would be awfully harder to track)
  
• -10 for having a comment reported and removed by staff (discourages negative comments)
  
• -50 for having a project reported and removed by staff (discourages rule-breaking projects)
  
• Reaching -100 results in an automatic temporary ban if one isn't issued manually before
  

There is virtually no limit to SBux, but no one other than yourself may view how many SBux you have, and they are non-transferrable. So then, if Scratchers keep accumulating SBux, what should they do with all of it? It's tricky to decide on this because paywalls on free content makes no sense. To get right to the point, piracy, scamming, and outrage happens when you do this. Kids don't like having to pay to play “stupid” games that waste their time and precious SBux. They'll demand refunds. They'll quit Scratch. They'll pressure others to give them $S or buy games for them. They'll do whatever it takes to cheat the system for little gain.

Luckily, it doesn't always have to do anything with buying access to “premium” projects or whatnot, it can have several hidden good uses:

• Raising the maximum number of cloud variables OR maximum data per cloud variable you can put in one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max list limit in one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max project size for one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max file size for the thumbnail of one studio you own for a limited time.
  
• Raising the max file size for your avatar for a limited time.
  
• Raising the character limit for your next comment.
  

I've specifically left out uses such as in-project currency and fame badges as those will create many obvious problems (i.e. scams, confusion, and glorifying fame is a terribly selfish thing to do). Those listed above may seem nice at first, but when taking the future of Scratch into account, these limits can change at will, making it a waste to spend on them. Perhaps it's better that we never spend at all…

But while we're being hypothetical, let's say projects can use SBux in some way. What kind of blocks would there be that would make it simple enough a child could make a transaction but secure enough to verify the transaction is legit? Any guesses? I wouldn't know, so this is what I could come up with:

($ my scratchbux ::sensing) // gets the current user's SBux
($ transaction id ::sensing) // ID of the current transaction made by this user
request transaction for $ (10) to (username) ::sensing // creates a pending transaction ID which expires shortly if not verified in time
// also opens a dialog box to verify the user wants to give SBux to the selected user, or to revoke the transaction
<transaction (ID) is verified? ::sensing> // checks whether a transaction fulfilled completely

Surely opening up a backdoor for transactions in an innocent project about shopping for avatar clothes seems safe, right?

As a veteran of Scratch, it's just so wrong in so many ways. First, it's just so out of place that I had a hard time coming up with better ways to turn bank jargon into baby babble. Second, transaction history will be difficult to follow as there is no discernible info about which transaction did what in a project, unless you somehow include a special sensing list for transactions? Ugh, no way. Third, there are no guarantees that a project fulfills a transaction or even restricts it at all; with everything shared freely, it's nigh impossible to hide stuff where Scratchers can't get to it. And even then, hiding stuff isn't exactly on terms with the ST's penchant for moderation, so transactions in projects is a Pandora's box that creates too many nightmarish scenarios.

And lastly, let's say SBux is used to brandish fame with badges, merch, premium stuff of that sort. Well, even though internet points are useless, and SBux being no exception, there is high stigma towards the “rich” from the “poor”. The tall poppy syndrome, as it is called. People who feel they aren't getting the SBux they deserve will throw their hands in frustration at those who appear to farm SBux effortlessly. While it's not much different than today's affairs with bountiful love-its going to regular front-page Scratchers, using SBux for status is an obscene idea.

So you see now, real money is a bad idea, virtual money is a bad idea, can Scratch just remain free and open forever, please?

coder2045 wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

One thing to keep in mind: it's not as simple as you think to even begin to implement this. Let's imagine what it would be like.

First of all, what currency will Scratch use? Will it use real money, or will it invent its own currency, like ScratchBux (SBux)? Going with the former means Scratch is no longer non-profit, and this creates epic bad consequences:

• Corporations can now freely sue Scratch for copyright infringement on the grounds that it profits off of piracy.
  
• Scratch loses tax-deductible status since it is now a source of income for the ST and now treated as a company, so they will have to constantly earn money or go bankrupt, which means bye-bye Scratch.
  
• A huge percentage of active users will leave Scratch in outrage, which cuts profiting off views/plays significantly. Basically a total net loss for the ST's revenue so they'll likely file for chapter 11 bankruptcy before the next business cycle. Essentially, Scratch plummets into darkness faster than you can say “well that was an awful decision”.
  

Okay, so real money is a no-go, but what if we were to create a completely worthless currency like SBux? Well, it needs to have ways of earning it as well as spending it that in no way restrict anyone unfairly. Here I've jotted down a few ideas for how participation changes it:

• Reaching +100 or more for the first time automatically gives you Scratcher status if you aren't already
  
• +100 for being curated or featured
  
• +5 for completing a tutorial or finding easter eggs on the website (one time only)
  
• +5/day when you click a special “daily” button in your profile settings (basically the “minimum wage” of Scratch)
  
• +1 for every fave, love, remix, and follow you receive (undoing and redoing will not cheat the system)
  
• +1 for every bad comment/project you report that gets removed by staff (might over-encourage some to go on report frenzies)
  
• +1/100 for every view on your projects (not unique views, those would be awfully harder to track)
  
• -10 for having a comment reported and removed by staff (discourages negative comments)
  
• -50 for having a project reported and removed by staff (discourages rule-breaking projects)
  
• Reaching -100 results in an automatic temporary ban if one isn't issued manually before
  

There is virtually no limit to SBux, but no one other than yourself may view how many SBux you have, and they are non-transferrable. So then, if Scratchers keep accumulating SBux, what should they do with all of it? It's tricky to decide on this because paywalls on free content makes no sense. To get right to the point, piracy, scamming, and outrage happens when you do this. Kids don't like having to pay to play “stupid” games that waste their time and precious SBux. They'll demand refunds. They'll quit Scratch. They'll pressure others to give them $S or buy games for them. They'll do whatever it takes to cheat the system for little gain.

Luckily, it doesn't always have to do anything with buying access to “premium” projects or whatnot, it can have several hidden good uses:

• Raising the maximum number of cloud variables OR maximum data per cloud variable you can put in one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max list limit in one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max project size for one project of your choice.
  
• Raising the max file size for the thumbnail of one studio you own for a limited time.
  
• Raising the max file size for your avatar for a limited time.
  
• Raising the character limit for your next comment.
  

I've specifically left out uses such as in-project currency and fame badges as those will create many obvious problems (i.e. scams, confusion, and glorifying fame is a terribly selfish thing to do). Those listed above may seem nice at first, but when taking the future of Scratch into account, these limits can change at will, making it a waste to spend on them. Perhaps it's better that we never spend at all…

But while we're being hypothetical, let's say projects can use SBux in some way. What kind of blocks would there be that would make it simple enough a child could make a transaction but secure enough to verify the transaction is legit? Any guesses? I wouldn't know, so this is what I could come up with:

($ my scratchbux ::sensing) // gets the current user's SBux
($ transaction id ::sensing) // ID of the current transaction made by this user
request transaction for $ (10) to (username) ::sensing // creates a pending transaction ID which expires shortly if not verified in time
// also opens a dialog box to verify the user wants to give SBux to the selected user, or to revoke the transaction
<transaction (ID) is verified? ::sensing> // checks whether a transaction fulfilled completely

Surely opening up a backdoor for transactions in an innocent project about shopping for avatar clothes seems safe, right?

As a veteran of Scratch, it's just so wrong in so many ways. First, it's just so out of place that I had a hard time coming up with better ways to turn bank jargon into baby babble. Second, transaction history will be difficult to follow as there is no discernible info about which transaction did what in a project, unless you somehow include a special sensing list for transactions? Ugh, no way. Third, there are no guarantees that a project fulfills a transaction or even restricts it at all; with everything shared freely, it's nigh impossible to hide stuff where Scratchers can't get to it. And even then, hiding stuff isn't exactly on terms with the ST's penchant for moderation, so transactions in projects is a Pandora's box that creates too many nightmarish scenarios.

And lastly, let's say SBux is used to brandish fame with badges, merch, premium stuff of that sort. Well, even though internet points are useless, and SBux being no exception, there is high stigma towards the “rich” from the “poor”. The tall poppy syndrome, as it is called. People who feel they aren't getting the SBux they deserve will throw their hands in frustration at those who appear to farm SBux effortlessly. While it's not much different than today's affairs with bountiful love-its going to regular front-page Scratchers, using SBux for status is an obscene idea.

So you see now, real money is a bad idea, virtual money is a bad idea, can Scratch just remain free and open forever, please?

SBux sounds horrible (going with your idea). Also, kids don't have credit cards and, I am assuming reasonable numbers here:
Griffpatch:
100 million views (including reviews)/100=1,000,000 SBux
300,000 faves/loves*2=600,000 SBux
Remixes should be powerful, so +20 per remix - 1,000 remixes=20,000 SBux
Assuming the +5 button clicked 1,500 times, 7,500 Sbux
Assuming Griffpatch was curated/featured 5 times, 500 SBux
Assuming 120 reports by Griffpatch, 120 SBux
Total: 1,628,120 SBux

Me:
100 views=1 SBux
1 love/fav*2=2 SBux
No remixes=0 SBux
Never featured/curated=0 SBux
10 comments reported=10 SBux
Total: 13 SBux

coder2045 wrote:

coder2045 wrote:

…

Accidental quote.

--Snowball-- wrote:

Isn't this already a rejected suggestion?

Za-Chary wrote:

1.4 Digital currency or money blocks
Essentially, digital currency would not really benefit the educational value of Scratch; after all, there is not really anything that you can buy. While there could be features that are only unlockable via digital currency, this does not really contribute to Scratch's purpose of being a programming language available for everyone. In addition, it is not clear as to how users could obtain this digital currency. However, you can make digital currency in your own projects, if you like.

The problem with money blocks is that many users on the website are young and do not quite know how money works (and most do not even have a credit card account). Users could make projects which require others to pay a large amount of money in order to play the project. Overall, it adds further complexity to the website, and would limit users' access, without any clear benefit towards the educational value.