Discuss Scratch

alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Please do not suggest ideas here! Make a new topic in this forum. Thanks!

Hello there! Before you send that post, this topic has many tips on the dos and don't's of constructive posting. You will find this very useful later on.

1. Don't bash on ideas
Basically, this means don't attack people with posts that might seem aggressive or harsh. This applies to the people responding to the topic, not just the person who made the topic. Here is an example of what you should not do:
OH. MY. GOSH. READ THE STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://scratch.mit.edu.ezproxy.canberra.edu.au/discuss/topic/4789/
http://scratch.mit.edu.ezproxy.canberra.edu.au/discuss/topic/4789/
OH. MY. GOSH. THIS IS A DUPLICATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SEARCH IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://scratch.mit.edu.ezproxy.canberra.edu.au/discuss/topic/45344/
http://scratch.mit.edu.ezproxy.canberra.edu.au/discuss/topic/45344/
And here is an example of what you should do:
Hey there!
That's a great idea, but unfortunately this suggestion was rejected due to moderation / technical issues.
There are these things on the forums called stickies that one must read before posting. The one called “ LIST OF REJECTED SUGGESTIONS” says that this won't work very will with the site:
(insert sticky quote here)
Keep thinking up ideas!
As you can see, the second one is much more friendly and makes the user more comfortable. So before posting, put yourself in their digital shoes; how would you feel if you were them and you have received the first post? Not very good, right? Try not to make a user feel bad about what they've done, just let them know they need to do something next time.

2. Don't don't repeat repeat other other people people.
This is a common one. If something has been mentioned, there is no need to say it again. For example, if someone has said that a certain suggestion was rejected by the stickies, there is no need for you to post about it being rejected by the stickies again. Also don't say just “support” or “no support”; it does not add to the discussion. Also refrain from making “quote trains”, where you would quote somebody and that would be your entire post (some add “^^^^” or “as per this”).
Unless you are going to add new information to the topic, do not repeat. repeat. repeat.

3. Think of a new direction
Instead of going with everyone' else's opinions, think about yourself. What do you think are the pros and cons of a suggestion? Provide the good points, and any other options the user could add to their suggestion. Instead of jumping to conclusions and saying “this would never work”, ask questions to the user. Like the popular saying…“Think before you act.”

4. Be straightforward
Make sure your posts can be understandable by everyone. It is appropriate to put humor or sarcasm in your posts, but don't overdo it. This may make users confused or uncomfortable, and may take the conversation off-topic. Also be sure to use proper spelling and grammar, and don't txt tlk, cuz it maks it hrdr 4 ppl 2 undrstnd ur post.

5. Don't go nuts with BBCode.
I sometimes see this. Some people use an unnecessary amount of BBCode or Scratchblocks on their posts that make it really confusing to the reader. Only use BBCode at parts you need to. Also avoid using excessive scratchblocks. Here is an example of what you should do and what you should not do. Guess which one you should do?
when I receive [a suggestion v]
if <the suggestion is [good v] :: sensing> then
say [SUPPORT! :D] for (2) secs
add (username) to [supporters v]
wait until <[scratch v] contains (suggestion) ?>
forever
dance :: custom
say [Hooray! They have it ^.^]
end
end
Support! Although I think the block should look something like this:
go to scratch.mit.edu/[projects v]/[123456] :: sensing
Don't be fooled, however! Some people may have scratchblocks in every single one of their posts! That's because they are contained in “signatures”. Learn more here.

6. Don't spam or necropost
Spamming is posting irrelevant content / advertising / posting something over and over. These types of posts on the forums are reportable, so avoid spamming, as it is off-topic and will confuse the OP. Click on the “6. Don't spam” to link to the original post, and learn more about spam here.

Necroposting is posting on an old topic (minimum a month old) without adding any new information (which is unconstructive, so that is why I decided to add it here on the first post). However, if you make constructive posts, and you add new information, you can post on topics that are a year old. Also, stickies or ITopics can never be necroposted on. Learn more here.

7. Keep Ideas Simple.
A good point brought by DownsGameClub. He pretty much sums it up here.

DownsGameClub wrote:

Scratch isn't designed for a super complex set of features. Like @Lightnin said in this post…

Lightnin wrote:

It should be easy to climb in and get started with Scratch - even for Scratchers who have no experience programming.
In other words, the website needs to be easy to understand and work with. If a feature sounds like it is too complicated for a 10 year old, it might be best to simplify the suggestion as much as possible so it is not super complicated.


What if I'M the OP?
If you're the person who made a suggestion, please have as much detail in your suggestion as possible. This will make it understandable for everybody. Also, don't put yourself down or call your suggestion “stupid” because someone doesn't agree with your idea. Instead, just move on, or improve to your suggestions or taking other people's ideas. Try to think of it as you and other people on a team, working together to make the ultimate suggestion! Being a sore loser does not help anyone, and it can be signs of disrespect.



And finally, here is a guide originally made by @Zro716 that has a lot of good tips to avoid making unconstructive posts before saying your support or no support. I have put this into my own words, along with some more added points.
Avoid these arguments.
  • Support / semi-support / no support (without reasoning) - It's very discouraged to make a post that is literally just one / two words long, because it doesn't help anyone and does not add to the discussion. If you are going to support or no support, please explain why, otherwise it makes your post meaningless.

  • +1 / +0.5 / -1 - A good point brought up by @Ziggy741. It'll be even worse if you express your support in numbers, let alone one or two words. As per the one above, do not use numbers unless you provide good reasons.

  • Approved / Rejected - Another good point by Ziggy741. Saying these words might confuse the OP, because “Approved” sounds like the suggestion will be added, and “Rejected” makes the OP think their suggestion is “stupid” and it will never be added. It's even worse if you say these words without reasoning!

  • Support, because why not? / Support, I don't see why we can't add this. - Don't support by asking for counter-arguments without having your own argument. Like Zro716 said, just because you don't see a reason why not, doesn't mean it should be added.

  • Support, would really help. - Do not support this way unless you provide a reason why it would be helpful. Can the suggestion be workarounded? If so, how hard is it to reach this? Recognize the benefits a suggestion has and problems that occur without the suggestion.

  • Support, I guess. - Don't support something unless you are 100% sure about your opinion. Saying “I guess…” sounds reluctant, and furthermore, it's as if you are providing no reason or argument to your post, and you are just “guessing” that the suggestion will work. Remember that every suggestion has its pros and cons.

  • No support, why? - It is okay to ask the user questions, but it's not okay to no support by using this question. The reasons may clearly have been stated on the first post, and this post shows that you didn't take the time to read the entire first post.

  • No support, useless. / No support, who would use this? - Never no support a suggestion just because you see no use for it, because some Scratchers may find a suggestion very useful to them. Remember, it's not only you in the Scratch community; keep other people in mind.

  • No support, confusing for New Scratchers - Scratch's design goals are to have a low floor, for an easy beginning, and a high ceiling, for complex programming. Don't reject blocks because they might be confusing for “noobs”. By this logic, we should remove custom blocks, the trigonometry functions, and even variables, because those might be confusing to New Scratchers. Sometimes it might seem confusing because the user that made the suggestion has not put enough detail. In this case, you may ask the OP to be more specific.

  • No support, can be abused. - This post tells that the user did not take the time to read the entire post and sees no benefit from the suggestion. A suggestion should not be no supported because it can be abused. Comments, loves, favorites, studio invites, and other features can be abused, so should those be removed? Only make this argument if it's obvious it can be abused, such as private messaging.

  • No support, can cause spam. - This post is similar to the one above. Just because something is spammable does not mean it shouldn't be added. Does this mean comments and forums should be removed because those can be spammed too? Do not make this argument, but instead suggest ways spam could be regulated and minimized, if not prevented.

  • No support, bad idea. - Never call an OP's suggestion a “bad idea” because you see no benefit to the user's suggestion. This is not only unconstructive of you, this is also insulting to the OP. Instead of saying a suggestion is a bad idea, argue that there are more cons than pros to the user's suggestion. Don't forget to list them!

  • No support, close this topic before a flame war starts. - You should not tell what the OP should do with their topic. Just because you and others disagree with it, or that you fear that a flame war may start, does not mean the OP should close the topic. The Suggestions forum is for debating, and the debating at least is civilized. Only make this argument if the suggestion is backed up by touchy subjects, such as religion or politics. Besides, if conversation gets out of hand, there is always the report button.

  • No support, workaroundable. - Don't post the workaround just yet! Most likely the user that made the suggestion was not aware of a workaround (or that the workaround is too hard). If you make this your only argument, it's just a matter of time before you start hunting down block suggestions and posting workarounds. By this logic, we should remove some existing blocks in Scratch because those can be workarounded as well. Scratch would be very difficult, if not impossible, to use if it was so low-level that multiplication had to be workarounded with nested addition reporters. So keep in mind that workarounds may not be the best argument for everything. Only use this argument if it is obvious there is a workaround, or if it's basically four blocks long. If you do use this argument, please use the scratchblocks tags and post the workaround.

  • No support, Scratch isn't social media. - This is a good point brought by DownsGameClub. It is true that the main point of Scratch is programming. However, there are already many things that make Scratch “social media”; comments, loves, favorites, sharing projects, profiles, forums, among others. Making this argument means that all of the features listed should be removed. This should not be the case. These features plus programming are what makes Scratch a community. It would get boring really fast if your creations were just private, where nobody would see it.

  • Indifferent. - Like Zro716 said, the field is for playing, not spectating. If you have no preference for an idea, don't post, unless you are going to add new information to the topic.

That's all for now. If you would like me to add / fix anything else, please let me know and I will post it here!
Thanks and Scratch On!

Last edited by alexphan (Sept. 9, 2016 23:56:44)

storytellergirl_test
Scratcher
100+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

AWESOME!!! super helpful! i'm reporting it to be sticky'ed!
NanoRook
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Cosmic is inactive, as I know the current topic contains a bunch of outdated information and isn't managed.

Reporting this to be stickied as it has new information not mentioned before that could be useful.
alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Stickied already?? That was fast
redgreenandblue
Scratcher
100+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Nice new guide! I hope people will follow it!
alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

redgreenandblue wrote:

Nice new guide! I hope people will follow it!
Thanks! I hope the suggestions forum will greatly improve, too.
Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

The BBcode one is really funny!

Also, a great guide!

Last edited by Ziggy741 (Aug. 6, 2016 15:37:11)

Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

You should add this: (You can add it to the numeric list if you want.)


Don't spam
Don't post off-topic posts! They might confuse the OP, especially if they are new to the forums. You could get reported, and spamming repeatedly can cause alerts, and maybe even a ban! Here are examples of what you should not do:
sdhfop4iutr9 348435io y9348 v5i34u
CHECK OUT MY PROJECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <link to project>
when green flag clicked
think [hi] for (2) secs
next costume
next backdrop
hide variable [ v]
show variable [ v]
hide variable [ v]
show variable [ v]
So, do not do those examples of spam.

Last edited by Ziggy741 (Aug. 6, 2016 15:38:25)

alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Ziggy741 wrote:

You should add this: (You can add it to the numeric list if you want.)


Don't spam
Don't post off-topic posts! They might confuse the OP, especially if they are new to the forums. You could get reported, and spamming repeatedly can cause alerts, and maybe even a ban! Here are examples of what you should not do:
...
So, do not do those examples of spam.
Added
Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

alexphan wrote:

Ziggy741 wrote:

You should add this: (You can add it to the numeric list if you want.)


Don't spam
Don't post off-topic posts! They might confuse the OP, especially if they are new to the forums. You could get reported, and spamming repeatedly can cause alerts, and maybe even a ban! Here are examples of what you should not do:
...
So, do not do those examples of spam.
Added
OK thank you.
alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

I have updated the OP and added not to post this:
Support, I guess. - Don't support something unless you are 100% sure about your opinion. Saying “I guess…” sounds reluctant, and furthermore, it's as if you are providing no reason or argument to your post, and you are just “guessing” that the suggestion will work. Remember that every suggestion has its pros and cons.
Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

For 2, you might want to say it's okay to say something again, if you have more information to add. I don't know if it's okay to do that, so add that if it's okay to do it.

Last edited by Ziggy741 (Aug. 6, 2016 18:42:11)

alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Ziggy741 wrote:

For 2, you might want to say it's okay to say something again, if you have more information to add. I don't know if it's okay to do that, so add that if it's okay to do it.
Yeah, I put “unless you have something new to add, don't repeat” or something between those lines.
Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

alexphan wrote:

Ziggy741 wrote:

For 2, you might want to say it's okay to say something again, if you have more information to add. I don't know if it's okay to do that, so add that if it's okay to do it.
Yeah, I put “unless you have something new to add, don't repeat” or something between those lines.
OK. Thank you.

Last edited by Ziggy741 (Aug. 6, 2016 19:29:30)

Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Some users use stuff instead of support/no support/semi-support, like for example +1/-1/+0.5 or Approved/Rejected. (I don't know if all users who use the “Counting thing” do +0.5 for semi-support, I'm using that example because I once saw it. Also, for the “Approved thing”, I don't think I saw one for semi-support.) I think that those stuff instead of support/no support/semi-support seem really unconstructive, so I think you should add that to the list of what kind of replies you shouldn't do.
1MatsuLover
Scratcher
500+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Can you add something about Necroposting, too?
alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

1MatsuLover wrote:

Can you add something about Necroposting, too?
Added.
Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

For the spam one, sometimes users post “bump” on their topic so more users will see their topic. It's fine, but it should only be done every 1 or 2 days. If it's done more than once in a short amount of time, then it should be reported.
alexphan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

Ziggy741 wrote:

For the spam one, sometimes users post “bump” on their topic so more users will see their topic. It's fine, but it should only be done every 1 or 2 days. If it's done more than once in a short amount of time, then it should be reported.
Yeah, I would add this, but I'm worried that we might be adding too much information about posts in general, instead of constructive replies.
Ziggy741
Scratcher
1000+ posts

A guide to constructive replies and suggestions (New and Improved!)

alexphan wrote:

Ziggy741 wrote:

For the spam one, sometimes users post “bump” on their topic so more users will see their topic. It's fine, but it should only be done every 1 or 2 days. If it's done more than once in a short amount of time, then it should be reported.
Yeah, I would add this, but I'm worried that we might be adding too much information about posts in general, instead of constructive replies.
Okay.

Last edited by Ziggy741 (Aug. 8, 2016 01:12:59)

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